Solingen 93

Domestic Violence and Abuse

Hackers Killing Streamers During Speedruns

so what do i do Beryl do I just go play five M what well guess I don't the deal Oh ladies and gents it's easy escape and what you just witnessed was a hacker killing Michael during friendly barons temper % speedrun of Grand Theft Auto 5 but wait if they were in the middle of a speedrun how did they get hacked this is because by default the game is always connected to the Internet on October 18th modders had access to a private mod menu which was able to abuse admin only features including admin kick network kick spawn vehicles rag doll and kill players since a lot of speedrunners for the game usually play connected to the internet since there really isn't a straightforward way to turn it off they were made targets by trolls watching their stream luckily this exploit wasn't used on anybody during the end of a run on a world record pace that would have been awful but it's definitely something that could have happened I thought this was kind of lame that all the hackers could do was instant kill people instead of doing something like spawning yourself into the game and hunting the speedrunners down honestly that would have been hilarious and if I was a speedrunner during that I wouldn't have even cared it just sounds like so much fun imagine if this was possible in something like smash during an all events speedrun and some netplay Fox 2 starts running you down and you have to for stalk him as quickly as possible just to stay on pace as for the aftermath of this glitch Rockstar patched the exploit within 24 hours and it wasn't able to be abused again I'm not really sure the extent on how many people were affected by it but there were two other runners that this happened to and here are their clothes except one incident how did Michael dive yeah exactly random if I want to do online stuff and all that I'll have to do what what the fuck was that what the hell that's time lost now I'm not doing anything I'm literally pressing no buttons Xbox 360 you did it again what I'd know what to tell you man I've definitely lost time here that's I've never seen a bug like this in my life what a shit way to lose time but what was it what could have caused it there is no button that can be legen crying in my way he's not good that guy wasn't in my way would have made out the door just as I got back up and hit me again what the fuck Oh somewhat of my game so if you like this incident opens the door for discussing the current issues in modern-day speedrunning because this isn't something that would ever be possible in retro gaming the only issues that ever arise in retro gaming is obtaining the fastest version of the game and console and that's pretty much it you never have to worry about updates or developers adding DLC which can only affect a speedrun and you certainly don't to worry about hackers killing you while you play for example I personally speedrun several different minigames and challenges in Super Smash Brothers 4 and you can already bet that I'm looking forward to do the same when smash ultimate comes out but when it does come out I'll most likely be buying a physical and digital copy of the game that way I'll have the fastest loading times possible since it's digitally downloaded but if an update happens which makes the game slower to run I would have to revert back to version 1.0 and the only way to do that is by completely resetting the Nintendo switch and playing off that physical copy luckily now there isn't endo switch online so I can save my progress from other games but this is still a huge hindrance since we have to include all versions of the game since they are all official releases I feel like this is best portrayed when looking at the Super Mario Odyssey leaderboards not only are there leaderboards split by the current and legacy versions of the game but even if you check the copy of the game each Runner uses some are using physical copies some are using digital and some are loading from SD which all have different loading times which kind of sucks because unless you had the hindsight to continue playing version 1.0 in the event that a new skip was found which would only be possible in that version for the record this actually did end up happening then everyone else is playing at a Force's advantage since they can no longer obtain the digital version this has an effect of the leaderboards too much since digital only saves 12 seconds but this may not be the case for other games like for example Dark Souls I was hoping to get somebody to play this game for my donating a casual streamer series but I soon realized how difficult that would actually be since they no longer officially sell the version of the game that people run any percent on so if I really wanted to get somebody to run it I'd have to buy them a $30 key off of a third party site but what happens when those keys run out something I've really never understood is why do game developers patch coaches in their games that don't affect casual play wait a second that doesn't sound right I mean if a developer finds out about a glitch in their game shouldn't they fix it obviously this is up to the developer but I don't like to think of glitches as something that's inherently negative there are plenty of glitches that you could consider to be happy accidents in the wise words of Miyamoto when he was asked about the minus one world in Super Mario Bros he said it's not like it crashes a game so it's really kind of a feature too and this is coming from one of the greatest game developers on the planet Super Mario 2 si gets a write-off here since they did introduce Luigi's balloon world and if they kept things away they were well let's just hope little Timmy knows how to walk clip cop ed had the weapon swap exploit which allowed you to switch between weapons rapidly to fire shots from both guns at the same time greatly increasing your DPS this was extremely difficult and I don't even think people during their casual playthrough would even do it if they knew about it well regardless it was patched out but why all I did was rewarded the more skilled players and affected literally nobody else unless they knew about the glitch and mastered it on their first playthrough luckily on Steam it's still possible to download the legacy versions so this really isn't that controversial in fact for most PC games in some way shape or form have a method of obtaining legacy versions even if it does resort to piracy but for speedrunners patching isn't just about the game sometimes it just feels personal I haven't really been able to think of a good way to explain this so let me use two of my favorite indie platformers that I played this year Celeste and Hollow tonight as an example the developers were Celeste have been some of the most involved or perhaps the most involved game developers in the speedrunning community if you join the Celeste speedrunning discord server there are usually several developers online and even a developer chat for speedrunners to discuss the game with them they're usually very open about patching bugs and they are usually quick to fix them but they don't usually patch glitches which don't affect casual play not that the game has very many glitches anyways in one case the developers removed a set of spikes which made a berry collecting strat non possible the community member Bob I didn't like this change so he decided to go to the developer chat and asked if it could be reverted the devs like the idea of casual and speedrun strats being different so they actually reverted the spikes back I really like the fact that instead of the dev scene this exploit has a flaw in their game they just saw it as another way to play it and really just a smart use of game mechanics even if it was possible to be performed by accident anyways I could go on for hours on all the great things celeste ABB's have done for the community but the main point here is that the celeste developers have done a great job at making their game speedrunning friendly and in doing so have made a extremely passionate and large community for their game now if we compare to the holo night developers instead of them pandering to speedrunners it seemed like they did the complete opposite and when passing the game they only seem to target stuff that only affected speedrunners I mean during the glitchless holo night speed run at sgdq 2017 the developers actually donated during the run and it seemed like they were actually interested in the speedrunning community around their game but then came agdq 2018 with an O storage out of bound speedrun of the game which allowed pretty much all glitches except for the map storage this time instead of donating during the run they patched a lot of the glitches that were used in it many of which no casual player would have ever found I know that fixing glitches doesn't necessarily mean that a games developers are actively trying to hurt the speedrunning community but in this case I feel differently because with the release of the game on Xbox one and ps4 they remove the speedrunning achievements for beating the game in 10 and 5 hours which means the holidayed speedrunning community may have lost a lot of potential runners who may have gotten into running the game through those entry level achievements that and none of the people who are playing on the console are going to be able to do the cloche categories anyways since they can only obtain the latest versions of the game only on Steam are you able to download like you see versions a lot of these changes have resulted in hollow night speedrunners moving on to other games like celeste whereas if the developers just gave a little bit more support to speedrunners they could have probably seen a lot more success with people participating and watching speedruns at their game alright guys it's all that you talk about today sorry about topic copying around this video but when I saw these GTA 5 hacks I instantly started to think about other games and all the issues that are arising in modern day speedrunning although this topic is constantly evolving with every new speed game that comes out and right now there really isn't enough to cover for an entire video on topic I think speed running and accessibility is something that might be more and more of an issue in the future as well as hacks being more prevalent with more games and consoles choosing to always be connected to the Internet anyways guys let me know what you think about this stuff in the comments section below leave the video like if you enjoyed it as it's the best way to show support I have speedran related merchants in the video description if you want to check that out but that's all I have to say subscribe for more speedrunning related content and I hope you all have a beautiful life Oh we got history got me feeling the nostalgia when you look at me they can die what could i happen know what could've been

Cesar Sullivan

43 thoughts on “Hackers Killing Streamers During Speedruns

  1. Gtav maybe that's why that one time I was like, hmm i feel like blowing up that gas station… OMG why did it blow up while I was looking at it…

  2. “All it did was rewarded more skilled players” well, isn’t that the point of speed running? To compete because you’re more skilled and thus faster in completing the game?

  3. Maybe this is just me, but developers patching bugs seems… completely and utterly like their job.

    “Oh but it doesnt affect casual play”
    Are you… sure? What if that glitch was caused by a bug that could affect other parts of the game?

    In a game like hollow knight, they clearly had challenges set out and intended for you to attack. If they patch a bug that lets you skip the challenge, that seems… totally fair, as it’s their game.

    I understand the speedrunning community used those glitches to shave time but… come on. Your bitching about devs wanting to fix literally fuck ups in their code just cause you like messing around with them.

    “But mooom why’d you fix that hole in the blanket I liked using it to peek through!”
    Is tantamount to what these complaints are.

  4. tbh this shit is hilarious. Speedrunners should get a sense of humor since they make cash while playing a game.

  5. Not at all surprised to see the GTA Online community being toxic enough to infect the single player side of GTA V as well.

  6. Stuff like what was mentioned in the talk about patching is why I hope Battle for Bikini Bottom Rehydrated goes like Ocarina of Time 3D where they put the speedtech in intentionally

  7. speedrun in offline mode LIKE AN ADULT

    (Im referring to PC exclusively and idek if this would be a fix)

  8. About not patching bugs and exploits. That's why i love divinity devs. There so many ways to one shot any bosses and they not gonna patch it

  9. I think some devs just prefer to have people play their game in the way they want rather than letting the doing it in some broken way. I mean if I made a boss to be hard and really skillful but someone was able to double or triple their damage output with an exploit I'd probably patch it out to.

  10. On the topic of dev's being supportive of speedrunning, I think another good example is Rabi Ribi. The dev, Gema, has been really active with the speedrunning community since the game released. He implemented a feature in the game that allows players to manually toggle certain glitches. The initial glitches were centered around a movement tech in game known as hammer roll in version 1.18(iirc), so the options menu lists it as "v1.18 hammer roll" even though it toggles many more glitches found over the years. The setting is toggled off by default so that glitches would never occur in casual play, as the player would have to toggle an advanced setting to even have them be possible. This is a really neat idea that Gema has used to almost meld two versions of the game into the same release, and I wish more devs would follow his example when it comes to fixing things that detriment the speedrunning community. Unfortunately sometimes that is impossible with console games. Even in Rabi Ribi's case Gema has been needing to compromise with the different versions of the game for the upcoming Switch release of the game. This is mostly due to some v1.18 hammer roll tricks seeming like they could possibly giving player the ability to execute arbitrary code, which could stop the game's release on the platform.

    v1.18 hammer roll isn't even the end of how Gema has kept in contact with the speedrunning community. A long time ago, custom maps were made possible by a community member albeit through very avant-garde methods. There were many fun advanced play focused maps, as well as a staple map called Platforming Tricks Tutorial that is almost a rite of passage to the Rabi speedrunning community. Seeing these maps, Gema implemented a simple loader for the custom maps, making them a core feature to the game. Eventually this would lead to the relatively newly released workshop for the game, all because Gema had listened to what went on in the community.

    Even to this day with the final patch of the game on the horizon Gema still keeps in contact with the community. Theres plenty of other things Gema has done with the community that has led to a great life to a great game. I could go on for ages about it, but I think you get the point.

  11. It's interesting you brought up the Cuphead example. I know I'm most likely in the minority, but I actually discovered and used the exploit you talked about in my casual playthrough independently from the speed running community. I didn't even know that it got patched out. I'm not saying that the point your making is wrong or anything, and now finding this out I also agree with you that it shouldn't be patched out. I just wanted to mention that at least one casual player figured out the glitch on their own. Maybe the developers did extended testing or watched playthroughs online and saw even casual players discovering it like I did and decided it strayed far from their vision on how weapon switching should work. Again, I don't think it should be patched out, but I do think there might be more to the story than "they found a glitch so they HAD to patch it out."

  12. Agreed. If it takes skill to find/execute and it benefits the player, it's a feature… not a bug. If it doesn't benefit the player it's a bug.

  13. hacker stalking to the speedrunner? This is sounds amazing, and probably worth to watch lol! I wish they found a new way to do this again, and stalk the speedrunner

  14. You had Red Barrel the creates of the popular game Outlast make Outlast 2 has hard as possible to speedrun. Instead of making a game around a good story line they decide the correct path confusing and had to follow when even playing casually. The only why Outlast is still popular for people to pick up was because of the speedrunning community that surrounded the game. So basically Red Barrel through an entire community under the bus because they did not like people finding and using glitches to break their game.

  15. As much as I enjoy watching speedruns the last part of this video gives a strong impression that glitches are a vital part of it. While they often make for interesting speedruns they are in no way required and developers should never have to keep in bugs at the request of a few players to allow them to complete the game faster. Glitches are not supposed to be part of the game no matter how convenient they are to a speedrunner, it shouldn't be unreasonable that a developer wants to remove it.

    I find it's important to note that speedrunning is a totally optional way to play the game, if bugs being removed makes the game less fun for you that's not the developers fault, they are fixing the game to how they intended it to be. It seems odd to me to suggest players should be able to pick and choose which bugs are in the game because it suits their style of play.

    The fact that runners with physical copies have advantages over digital copies because of patches shouldn't be a concern for game developers imo, optimizing your speedrun is your responsibility as it's your hobby. The developers responsibility is to make a complete game which caters to the majority of their audience, the casual players.

  16. Gee I really wonder why devs would want to stop people from breaking and exploiting their game mechanics to the point where it's not even like you're playing a fucking game anymore

  17. Miyamoto is an artist not a programmer. It'd be like asking someone playing piano to rate frescoes. They may have an opinion, but they're no more qualified than you or me on the topic.

  18. Just for interest’s sake. As a programmer myself when someone finds a glitch in something I wrote, the first thing that I would think is “wow, fascinating, I want to debug it and work out what’s going wrong”. Inevitably you then try to fix it. It’s honestly likely less malice towards the speed running community and more about their care for their own craft. Great video btw, I just know that finding and fixing complex bugs is part of the fun on the other side.

  19. so…. hackers kill speed runners… but only those three times…. and then the rest is unrelated?

  20. Agreed with you until saying the cup head exploit took skill, it was the way everyone who sucked at the game was able to beat it and unfairly get all the achievements, it was easy as hell to perform lol

  21. Second half of video should have been separate, or be in the title.

    Screw the bait and switch for advertising minutes. 👎🏻

  22. I used to speed run ff15 and that has suffered as a run due to constant updates, patches and what not. the base game had a Unlimiated MP glitch that would have allowed us to use the warp move to move through the open world faster they patched this and the run had to change to use the airstrip sword which reduced the mp usage for warping allowing us to warp around for longer periods and move faster. The ring of the Luci was a story based weapon that was meant to super powerful within the games lore, it had one spell called death with a very low chance of instakilling enemies. Casual players said it felt under powered as the story builds it up to be this epic and awesome thing so the devs made major upgrades to it and now death kills nearly everything with a much higher pace, it even kills 3/4 of the last bosses in the game leading to less skill at the end of a run and more luck. At one point I was 15 minutes ahead of PB going into Ifrit, the second to last boss of the game. At the time the run was a 5+ hour run so this was really good pace and would have put me in the top 3 on the leaderboards. Any way Ifrit takes an average of 3–10 attempts with death to kill but on this amazing pace my Ifrit decided he wanted a sacrifice of 25 attempts losing me 5 minutes, I got the PB but it was awful. On the same note I have had runs level or behind PB pace going into the last 4 bosses and had stupidly good luck where I get amazing rolls and PB. this made people make a no ring% just to make the game challenging again. The game then got a royal edition which completely changed the ending section of the game making the last city map much bigger, changing one of the final bosses from king behemoth to Cerberus and then adding in an additional 3 bosses that are mandatory, 3 new cutscenes and dialogue. this was not dlc but the latest patch so your forced to download it. this lead to the categories being split between base game and royal edition. Add to this the fact ps4 pro and SSD hard rives were mandatory to be competitive as there are a lot of load screens and these features save about 5 minutes over stock ps4 and HDD, when the game came out on PC that had faster load times but someone also made a load remover so PC times were much lower. this is the issue with running modern games , constant changes make the games and routes change.

  23. I don't speedrun and absolutely hate forced patches. If a game isn't multiplayer and the bug isn't affecting hardware or casual players just leave that shit in the game.

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